NS400R & TZR250 3XV Conrod Comparison

[Ian]

This post really deserves some text but it's late and I'm tired !









All figures are measured with my non digital gauges, and both conrods and all bearings are well used examples.

Yamaha 3XV

Crank Pin Diameter - ?
Big End Diameter - 31mm
Big End Width - 15.98mm
Little End Diameter - 21mm
Little End Width - 15.98mm
Gudgeon Pin Diameter - 16.98
Internal Length - 136mm
Centre to Centre - 110.0mm (Internal Length - (little End/2+big End/2)) 136mm-26mm = 110mm
Total Rod Length - 144.10 (ish)

Honda KM9

Crank Pin Diameter - 24mm
Big End Diameter - 31mm
Big End Width - 16.92mm
Little End Diameter - 20mm
Little End Width - 16.96mm
Gudgeon Pin Diameter - Don't have one free.
Internal Length - 134.42
Centre to Centre - 108.92mm (Internal Length - (little End/2+big End/2)) 134.42mm-25.5mm = 108.92mm
Total Rod Length - 143.20 (ish)

[Channel Hopper]

I still have the duff crankshaft here, where two of the rods need a good overhaul

To retain the balance of the crank and the piston travel I suppose its adviseable to transfer all three rods over.

Is the 3XV rod still produced or is it simply available as NOS (new old stock)?

Any idea of a price for the rod / big end bearing ?

[Channel Hopper]

And I forgot to ask, do you have scales to weigh them ?

[Ian]

Yamaha rods still available from Japan. No idea on price as the person I borrowed this one from had new ones fitted and wasn't given a price breakdown.

I did think about the weight but I don't have a suitable set of scales to get an accurate reading.

[Channel Hopper]

I take it the two most important dimensions are the total length and crank pin diameter, which allows the new pin to be fitted in the crankshaft, matching the new rod.

If so these are the closest matched ones, but I will ask my mechanic friend at the bike club if there are any modern Honda 125s that share similar components.

Cant help feeling that there is one outlet in Japan that makes rods for all manufacturers, and they would have a stock book of bits.
The idea that both Yamaha and Honda (and others ?) conform to a three character Product Code Number suggests the design of the engine components has some generic basis above individual marques.

[Hondaen]

Keep up the good work!

[Ian]

All the measurements are important.
The "centre to centre" measurement would be the key one.
Using my figures above, the piston will end up being 1.08mm higher in the bores than it should be. You would need to add 1mm to the base gasket thickness to bring it back to spec.

[Middo]

One of the posts above makes reference to checking other Honda 125's for similar components. Has anyone checked the specs for the Honda NSR150R? These are imported into Australia (first as grey imports) by Honda, and are manufactured in Thailand. They have a single cylinder, single sided swing-arm, and Repsol graphics. A quick look in the back of the 150's handbook listed the bore as 59mm (NS4 is 57mm??). Other parts may be interchangeable - who knows? These are also current models, so parts should be available new. More food for thought.........

[VinCBR900]

There is a table of rod dimensions that may prove useful at
http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~elvpc/papers/Rods.html

Vincent

[Ian]

Cheers Vince, can I steal it ?

[VinCBR900]

Its for all to use so knock yourself out!

Vincent

[Ian]

Ta,

For storage:-

Wiseco Rods Dimensions
Vincent Crabtree, 14th March 2005 Bore Width Big End Pin Needle Rollers Big End
http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~elvpc/bikes.html Centre to Centre Small End Large End Small End Big End Dia Length Small End Big End Washer Thickness

HONDA
CR80 86-02, CR85 2003-04 CR120 97 18 26 14 14 20 45 14x18x16 20x26x14 1
CR125 1981-84 CR121 100 18 28 18 16 22 53 14x18x20 22x28x16 1
CR125 1985-87 CR122 104 18 28 16 16 22 54 14x18x19 22x28x16 1
CR125 1988-04 CR123 104 19 28 16 16 22 54 15x19x17 22x28x16 1
CR250 1984-01 CR124 125.3 22 31 20 17 24 60 18x22x22 24x31x17 0.85/1.25
CR250 2002-04 CR187 125.3 22 32 20 16.5 25 60 18x22x22 25x32x16.5 1
CR500 1987-01 CR166 144 25 34 24 20 26 68 20x25x28 26x34x20 1.5
XR250 1986-04 CR162 105 17 41 18 18 32 58 NA 32x41x18 1
XR400 1996-04 CR126 122.6 20 43 20 20 34 66 NA 34x43x20 NA
XR600 1985-04 CR127 134 24 48 23 23 38 65 NA 38x48x23 1
XL600 1983-87 CR127 134 24 48 23 23 38 65 NA 38x48x23 1

KAWASAKI
KX60 84-99, KX65 2000-04 CR128 85 16 26 14 14 20 46 12x16x15 20x26x14 1
KX80 82-97, KDX80 1982-88 CR129 92 18 28 16 14 22 46 14x18x17 22x28x14 1
KX80 98-00, KX85 2001-04 CR171 92 18 28 16 14 22 46 14x18x17 22x28x14 2
KX100 1995-97 CR129 92 18 28 16 14 22 46 14x18x17 22x28x14 1
KX100 1998-04 CR171 92 18 28 16 14 22 46 14x18x17 22x28x14 2
KX125 1979-87 CR130 106 21 29 17 17 22 51 16x21x20 22x29x17 1
KX125 1988-91 CR131 109 21 29 17 17 22 51 16x21x20 22x29x17 1
KX125 1992-93 CR130 106 21 29 17 17 22 51 16x21x20 22x29x17 1
KX125 1994-97 CR132 106 19 29 17 17 22 51 15x19x17 22x29x17 1
KX125 1998-02 CR165 104 19 29 17 17 22 51 15x19x20 22x29x17 1
KX125 2003-04 CR190 104 19 29 17 17 22 56 15x19x20 22x29x17 1
KX250 78-04, KDX250 1991-94 CR133 125 22 32 22 20 24 59 18x22x24 24x32x20 1.5
KX500 1985-04 CR164 145 24 33 22 22 26 54 19x24x25 26x33x22 1
KDX200 89-04, KDX220 1997-04 CR131 109 21 29 17 17 22 51 16x21x20 22x29x17 1

KTM
250-300 1990-99 CR135 132 22 31 17 17 24 60 18x22x20 24x31x17 1
KTM, LEM 50cc (All) (All) CR172 77 15 22 12 12 16 30 12x15x15 16x22x12 NA

SUZUKI
RM60 2003-04
RM65 2003-04 CR128 85 16 26 14 14 20 46 12x16x15 20x26x14 1
RM80 1991-01 CR136 93.5 18 26 14 16 20 45 14x18x16 20x26x14 ring
RM85 2002-04 CR191 93.5 18 26 14 14 20 45 14x18x16 20x26x14 1.5
RM100 2003-04 CR171 92 18 28 16 14 22 46 14x18x17 22x28x14 2
RM125 1984-86 CR121 100 18 28 18 16 22 53 14x18x20 22x28x16 1
RM125 1988-96 CR137 105 19 28 18 16 22 53 15x19x18 22x28x16 1.5/1.25
RM125 1997-98 CR160 100 19 28 18 16 22 53 15x19x20 22x28x16 1.5
RM125 1999-03 CR177 102 19 28 18 16 22 53 15x19x20 22x28x16 1.5
RM250 87-95, RMX250 1989-98 CR138 128 23 32 22 20 24 58 18x23x22 24x32x20 ring
RM250 1996-02 CR161 125.5 23 32 20 20 24 58 18x23x22 24x32x20 1.5
RM250 2003-04 CR192 125 23 32 20 20 24 59.25 18x23x22 24x32x20 1

YAMAHA
YZ80 93-01, YZ85 2002-04 CR139 96 18 26 14 14 20 44 14x18x16 20x26x14 1
YZ125 1986-96 CR140 105 20 29 17 17 22 55 16x20x20 22x29x17 1
YZ125 1997-00 CR174 105 20 29 17 17 22 55 15x20x18 22x29x17 1
YZ125 2001-04 CR183 105 19 29 16 17 22 55 15x19x17 22x29x17 1
YZ250 1983-89 CR141 130 23 32 20 20 25 60 18x23x22 25x32x20 1
YZ250 90-98, WR250 1991-97 CR142 125 23 32 20 20 25 60 18x23x22 25x32x20 1
YZ250 1999-04 CR173 125 22 31 20 17 24 59 18x22x22 24x31x17 0.85

ATV
HONDA
ATC250 1981-84 CR179 125.3 22 31 20 17 24 56.5 18x22x22 24x31x17 1
ATC250R 85-86, TRX250 1986 CR124 125.3 22 31 20 17 24 60 18x22x22 24x31x17 1.35
TRX250 1987-89 CR156 130.3 22 31 17 17 24 60 18x22x22 24x31x17 1.35
TRX400EX 1999-04 CR188 122.6 20 43 17 21 34 66 NA 34x43x20 NA

KAWASAKI
KSF80 2003-04 CR184 85 16 23 14 14 17 37 12x16x16 17x23x14 1

POLARIS
T Boss, Scrambler 250 (All) CR168 120 23 34 18 18 25 56 18x23x22 25x34x18 1
Trail Boss 350/400 to 1999 CR169 130 23 34 20 20 26 61 18x23x24 26x34x20 1

SUZUKI
LT80 (All) CR184 85 16 23 14 14 17 37 12x16x16 17x23x14 1
LT230 1987-94 CR175 111.5 16 38 14 18 30 53 NA 30x38x18 1
LT250 (2 Stroke) 1987-92 CR157 128 23 32 22 20 24 55 18x23x24 24x32x20 ring
LT500 1987-90 CR176 143 23 32 22 20 24 74 18x23x24 24x32x20 2.5

YAMAHA
Blaster 200 1987-04 CR170 110 21 29 18 17 22 57 16x21x23 22x29x17 1
Banshee 350 1987-04 CR158 110 21 29 18 17 22 53 16x21x23 22x29x17 1
Banshee Long Rod +5mm 1987-04 CR178 115 21 29 18 17 22 53 16x21x23 22x29x17 1
Warrior (All) CR189 112.5 19 41 20 20 33 58 NA 33x41x20 1
Raptor HD 2001 CR193 136.5 22 45 22 22 37 74 NA 37x45x22 NA
Raptor 2002-04 CR194 136.5 22 45 22 22 37 74 NA 37x45x22 NA

PWC
KAWASAKI
JS 440/550 CR149 110 20 30.6 18 15 24.6 49 16x20x23 24.6x30.6x15 1
JS/JF 650 CR150 133 22 32 22 20 24 59 18x22x24 24x32x20 1
JS750 20mm Wrist Pin 1993-96 CR151 133 25 34 22 20 26 59 20x25x25 26x34x20 1
JS750 22mm Wrist Pin 1995-02 CR152 133 27 36 22 20 28 58 22x27x25 28x36x20 1
JS900, ZXI CR151 133 25 34 22 20 26 59 20x25x25 26x34x20 1
JS1100, ZXI 1995-02 CR167 135 27 34 22 20 26 59 22x27x25 26x34x20 1
Ultra 150 1200cc (All) CR186 140 29 40 22 20 32 62 24x29x25 32x40x20 1

POLARIS
650/750/780 SL Mag CR153 120 23 32.3 16 16 24.3 51 18x23x22 24.3x32.3x16 1
650/750/780 SL PTO CR154 120 23 32.3 16 16 24.3 54 18x23x22 24.3x32.3x16 1
700/900/1050 CR155 136 25 35 16 16 28 60 20x25x22 28x35x16 1

SEA-DOO
580 to 1996 CR144 125 22 31 17 17 24 52 18x22x22 24x31x17 1
650 to 1997 CR147 125 25 31 17 17 24 52 20x25x22 24x31x17 1
720XP, HX, Mag 1995-02 CR145 125 24 33 18 18 26 53 20x24x24 26x33x18 1
720XP, HX, Mag 1995-02 CR146 125 24 33 18 18 26 55 20x24x24 26x33x18 1
785XP, Rave (All) CR148 140 24 35 18 18 28 55 20x24x23 28x35x18 1
951 Rave 1998-04 CR182 140 25 36 20 20 28 57 21x25x24 28x36x20 1

YAMAHA
650 (All) CR143 125 25 32 20 20 25 60 20x25x24 25x32x20 1
701 (All) CR143 125 25 32 20 20 25 60 20x25x24 25x32x20 1
760 (All) CR143 125 25 32 20 20 25 60 20x25x24 25x32x20 1
GP800, GR1200R (All), CR185 135 27 34 21 21 27 69 22x27x23 27x34x21 1.5
1100 (All) CR143 125 25 32 20 20 25 60 20x25x24 25x32x20 1
WaveRunner GP1200 to 1999 CR143 125 25 32 20 20 25 60 20x25x24 25x32x20 1

http://www.ns400r.co.uk/ns400r/parts_list/Rods.htm

[Channel Hopper]

If this is of any use , I can add the following data (not in Vinces format though )

Yamaha TZR125/DT125R

Crank Pin Diameter - 22 mm
Big End Diameter - 29 mm
Big End Width - 16.98 mm
Little End Diameter - 21 mm
Little End Width - 17.01 mm
Gudgeon Pin Diameter - 16 mm.
Internal Length - 129.78 mm
Centre to Centre - mm (Internal Length - (little End/2+big End/2)) 129.78 mm-25.0 mm = 104.78 mm
Total Rod Length - 137.20 mm (ish)


Might consider measuring a couple of Kawasaki triples in a minute